Iba a meter este comentario en el tema sobre el nuevo disco de Steven Wilson, pero a lo mejor es preferible no mezclarlo. Abro tema para añadir las posturas que habéis visto sobre otros músicos con respecto a lo que está sucediendo en Gaza.
"Se que es un clásico lo de no mezclar a la persona y a la obra, pero no me ha gustado leer a SW estos día con respecto a Israel.
Creo que su mujer es Israelí y tiene dos hijos educados como judíos, pero me parece que a su punto de vista le falta mucho para ser ecuánime. Estoy con él en el tema de que lo de Hamas ha sido una brutalidad, y que lo realmente importante son los inocentes que sufren las consecuencias de las guerras, pero nunca le he leído ni un ápice de crítica a la desproporcionada e inhumana respuesta militar de Israel sobre la franja.
Tal vez no debería, pero me está afectando a la hora de escuchar el disco. Me parece muy bueno, pero no puedo evitar pensar en ello cuando lo escucho
(15 de Octubre) - "I'm just a musician, but still I know some of you do care what I think, so I want to be clear that I unreservedly support Israel and their right to take action to protect and defend themselves against the murderous and barbaric hate crimes carried out by terrorist organisation Hamas against Israeli civilians. I believe Israel has been left with no alternative, and that there is no 'right' thing left to do, only what has to be done, however unpleasant and difficult it may be.
"But I want to say that I also stand with all innocent men, women, children and animals on both sides that have become caught up in this senseless situation, killed, bereaved, taken hostage, or displaced from their homes, through no fault of their own. Hamas are the enemy here, with both Israelis and Palestinians as their victims.
"We are living through sad and terrible times.""
MUSICOS - Israel - Gaza
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Noche de Rock
- El Amo del Calabozo
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David Boring
- Piloto
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Re: MUSICOS - Israel - Gaza
El tema del posicionamiento por uno u otro bando en este conflicto es una cosa bastante escabrosa. En españa el apoyo a Palestina es bastante amplio (especialmente entre la izquierda), pero empiezas a echar un ojo por el mundo y te encuentras divisiones de opiniones bastante grandes. Vamos, que no se encuentra uno con la casi unanimidad que por ejemplo se vio en su momento contra la guerra de Irak. Así que llama la atención que en ámbitos como la música haya tanta gente aparentemente cercana en lo ideológico que se esté posicionando de maneras casi opuestas.
El viernes pasado Sleaford Mods cortaron su concierto en Madrid (cuando quedaba ya poco para terminar, eso sí) la segunda vez que alguien arrojó un pañuelo palestino al escenario. El sábado el cantante puso un mensaje en twitter diciendo "no me pidáis que tome partido en medio de un concierto acerca de algo sobre lo que no tengo apenas idea. Soy cantante. Mi trabajo es la música". Estas son las palabras que podría esperar, no sé, de un Melendi de la vida (ya se sabe, apolítico, o sea, de derechas), pero que llaman mucho la atención en boca de Sleaford Mods, cuyas letras tienen bastante carga política.
No sé, supongo que en buena parte de occidente la cultura judía está más presente que aquí, y de una u otra forma a través de ella puede llegar el influjo de los ultras israelíes, que al final se puede manifestar en apoyos explícitos al apartheid y a las bestialidades militares, o en un cierto reparo a la hora de condenarlo por miedo a recibir acusaciones de antisemitismo o de apoyo al yihadismo. Pero el caso es que, por chocante que parezca y por mucho que me joda, la postura pública de Roger Waters no es ni mucho menos hegemónica a día de hoy en el panorama cultural internacional.
El viernes pasado Sleaford Mods cortaron su concierto en Madrid (cuando quedaba ya poco para terminar, eso sí) la segunda vez que alguien arrojó un pañuelo palestino al escenario. El sábado el cantante puso un mensaje en twitter diciendo "no me pidáis que tome partido en medio de un concierto acerca de algo sobre lo que no tengo apenas idea. Soy cantante. Mi trabajo es la música". Estas son las palabras que podría esperar, no sé, de un Melendi de la vida (ya se sabe, apolítico, o sea, de derechas), pero que llaman mucho la atención en boca de Sleaford Mods, cuyas letras tienen bastante carga política.
No sé, supongo que en buena parte de occidente la cultura judía está más presente que aquí, y de una u otra forma a través de ella puede llegar el influjo de los ultras israelíes, que al final se puede manifestar en apoyos explícitos al apartheid y a las bestialidades militares, o en un cierto reparo a la hora de condenarlo por miedo a recibir acusaciones de antisemitismo o de apoyo al yihadismo. Pero el caso es que, por chocante que parezca y por mucho que me joda, la postura pública de Roger Waters no es ni mucho menos hegemónica a día de hoy en el panorama cultural internacional.
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Noche de Rock
- El Amo del Calabozo
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Re: MUSICOS - Israel - Gaza
El Facebook de Orphaned Land es muy interesante de seguir estos días. Supongo que todos sabéis que la banda es de Israel, pero que llevan décadas cantándole al encuentro entre culturas y de hecho han girado con Karras una banda palestina, en varias ocasiones. No es extraño ver a Kobi Farhi luciendo una palestina en los conciertos.
Sitúan su discurso en contra de la guerra y estos días están recibiendo mucho odio en redes por mostrar su tristeza por los ataques a Israel.
Siempre me ha dado la sensación de que a los Israelíes les pasa un poco como a los americanos, en cuanto a la información que manejan y como la procesan... pero pienso que Orphaned Land no son el caso....
Os dejo el enlace por si alguien quiere leer sus palabras y comentar lo que sea - https://www.facebook.com/OrphanedLandOfficial/
Por ejemplo:
"The first days of October were silent, no one got killed and there was no war... Then, on October 7th thousands of Hamas terrorists invaded Israel and murdered, burned, slaughtered 1,500 people, babies, kids, women, girls were raped and executed, entire families burned alive, and the worst thing I had ever heard on my life - they cut the belly of a pregnant woman and shot her infant on her belly.
Furthermore 214 babies, kids, women, elders and men were kidnaped.
I am Israeli, I am a son of the Jewish nation, all the people - if Israel is heart broken in ways, I cannot even begin to describe.
This was purely a declaration of war, and it was obvious that this war will cause many more innocent victims.
I hate wars, they are brutal, unjust, they make your reality impossible. It is also impossible to be a member of Orphaned Land in times of war.
One thing I hate more than wars, and it is Antisemitism & N@zis.
I played in Turkey around 25 times, we received 3 peace awards in Turkey, we donated an income of our show to earthquake victims.
There are many wars in the world. I never saw a sign forbidding Russians, Americans, Arabs or any other nation to enter a shop. Jews always gets this amazing privilege and honor, cause Antisemitism was always there. And Antisemites and modern N@zis are my new mission and instead of devoting myself to peace, I will devote myself to fight these racists, on our next songs, albums and the new model of Orphaned Land. I know this does not represent Turkey, I got hundreds of messages from beloved Turks, Turkey had always been home to me, but this shop runs by a pure Antisemite.
By Kobi Farhi."
"They will not let you mourn, not even for a single minute, to stand with Israel? or the Israelis? Who are just happened to be the people you were born with, the place and people you spent most of your life with, your nation, your own flesh and blood, your friends, no – you disappoint them if you do that.
There is one way to see the truth – their way. They see while you are actually "blind". You don't have a single right whatsoever to grieve, or to be sad or mad. Not even for a minute, not even if you knew some of the pure victims, or if you see all your beloveds' heart broken, if you do not follow their narrative of the "truth", you're a hypocrite, "finally they see your real face". They, themselves, never showed one single sympathy for Israeli victims at any time (We, more than once showed it to Palestinians in gazillion interviews posts, on stage or other places)
It's always this "whataboutism" –
"Where were you when your government…", "Why don't you speak about…", "Why didn't we hear from you when…" Well, here is a message to all of you people from that kind who posted, commenting on our page.
We toured Europe with a Palestinian band in the past (Still the only band up to date in the worldwide metal scene that actually did it)
When we got an award from Metal Hammer magazine in the UK, we decided to share it with a Palestinian band.
We never saw or will see the Palestinians as enemies, it's the Hamas. They are nothing but Nazis.
At these times – We will stand with Israel. Not against Palestinians, but against the Hamas. Maybe you cannot get it yet, but the life of Palestinians will be much better without them, they never done anything for the wellbeing of their people with the money they get, they just make tunnels, rockets, weapons. Try one time to be a Palestinian in Gaza and protest against the Hamas – good luck with that.
The death of innocents will always break our heart, doesn't matter from which side. If you have any idea how to remove Hamas from this world and bring the kidnapped (Israelis and other nations) among them babies, kids, women, one old lady at the age of 85 who happened to be a holocaust survivor – do let us know. Those monsters (They are not even animals, animals kill and hunt to live and survive) are hiding between civilians, shooting from civilized areas as they know and want the innocents to get hurt – We guess that your expectation are that the Jews just have to sit tight, do nothing, otherwise you'll be upset.
Last but not least – You wish to stop following us, stop consuming our music that's completely your right, completely your loss, and that's completely fine by us, even we will lose 50,000 fans – be well, Godspeed and farewell.
"Again and again we fail to see that all is one"
Orphaned Land."
Sitúan su discurso en contra de la guerra y estos días están recibiendo mucho odio en redes por mostrar su tristeza por los ataques a Israel.
Siempre me ha dado la sensación de que a los Israelíes les pasa un poco como a los americanos, en cuanto a la información que manejan y como la procesan... pero pienso que Orphaned Land no son el caso....
Os dejo el enlace por si alguien quiere leer sus palabras y comentar lo que sea - https://www.facebook.com/OrphanedLandOfficial/
Por ejemplo:
"The first days of October were silent, no one got killed and there was no war... Then, on October 7th thousands of Hamas terrorists invaded Israel and murdered, burned, slaughtered 1,500 people, babies, kids, women, girls were raped and executed, entire families burned alive, and the worst thing I had ever heard on my life - they cut the belly of a pregnant woman and shot her infant on her belly.
Furthermore 214 babies, kids, women, elders and men were kidnaped.
I am Israeli, I am a son of the Jewish nation, all the people - if Israel is heart broken in ways, I cannot even begin to describe.
This was purely a declaration of war, and it was obvious that this war will cause many more innocent victims.
I hate wars, they are brutal, unjust, they make your reality impossible. It is also impossible to be a member of Orphaned Land in times of war.
One thing I hate more than wars, and it is Antisemitism & N@zis.
I played in Turkey around 25 times, we received 3 peace awards in Turkey, we donated an income of our show to earthquake victims.
There are many wars in the world. I never saw a sign forbidding Russians, Americans, Arabs or any other nation to enter a shop. Jews always gets this amazing privilege and honor, cause Antisemitism was always there. And Antisemites and modern N@zis are my new mission and instead of devoting myself to peace, I will devote myself to fight these racists, on our next songs, albums and the new model of Orphaned Land. I know this does not represent Turkey, I got hundreds of messages from beloved Turks, Turkey had always been home to me, but this shop runs by a pure Antisemite.
By Kobi Farhi."
"They will not let you mourn, not even for a single minute, to stand with Israel? or the Israelis? Who are just happened to be the people you were born with, the place and people you spent most of your life with, your nation, your own flesh and blood, your friends, no – you disappoint them if you do that.
There is one way to see the truth – their way. They see while you are actually "blind". You don't have a single right whatsoever to grieve, or to be sad or mad. Not even for a minute, not even if you knew some of the pure victims, or if you see all your beloveds' heart broken, if you do not follow their narrative of the "truth", you're a hypocrite, "finally they see your real face". They, themselves, never showed one single sympathy for Israeli victims at any time (We, more than once showed it to Palestinians in gazillion interviews posts, on stage or other places)
It's always this "whataboutism" –
"Where were you when your government…", "Why don't you speak about…", "Why didn't we hear from you when…" Well, here is a message to all of you people from that kind who posted, commenting on our page.
We toured Europe with a Palestinian band in the past (Still the only band up to date in the worldwide metal scene that actually did it)
When we got an award from Metal Hammer magazine in the UK, we decided to share it with a Palestinian band.
We never saw or will see the Palestinians as enemies, it's the Hamas. They are nothing but Nazis.
At these times – We will stand with Israel. Not against Palestinians, but against the Hamas. Maybe you cannot get it yet, but the life of Palestinians will be much better without them, they never done anything for the wellbeing of their people with the money they get, they just make tunnels, rockets, weapons. Try one time to be a Palestinian in Gaza and protest against the Hamas – good luck with that.
The death of innocents will always break our heart, doesn't matter from which side. If you have any idea how to remove Hamas from this world and bring the kidnapped (Israelis and other nations) among them babies, kids, women, one old lady at the age of 85 who happened to be a holocaust survivor – do let us know. Those monsters (They are not even animals, animals kill and hunt to live and survive) are hiding between civilians, shooting from civilized areas as they know and want the innocents to get hurt – We guess that your expectation are that the Jews just have to sit tight, do nothing, otherwise you'll be upset.
Last but not least – You wish to stop following us, stop consuming our music that's completely your right, completely your loss, and that's completely fine by us, even we will lose 50,000 fans – be well, Godspeed and farewell.
"Again and again we fail to see that all is one"
Orphaned Land."
-
Noche de Rock
- El Amo del Calabozo
- Mensajes: 38581
- Registrado: 26 Ago 2003, 21:02
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Re: MUSICOS - Israel - Gaza
La postura de Yossi Sassi, sin embargo (con quien tuve la oportunidad de hablar un buen rato en una ocasión y me pareció un tipo muy cabal y moderado)... es que Israel está librando una guerra contra Hamás y defendiendo la democracia de Europa contra el extremismo.
Echad un ojo a su muro - https://www.facebook.com/yossi.sassi1
Me ha sorprendido no ver en su muro ni un comentario crítico con la desproporcionada respuesta del ejército Israelí a la Franja.
Echad un ojo a su muro - https://www.facebook.com/yossi.sassi1
Me ha sorprendido no ver en su muro ni un comentario crítico con la desproporcionada respuesta del ejército Israelí a la Franja.